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Discussion: Inner Gondor Update

sjoerdtim

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This thread is for discussing and asking questions about the Inner Gondor Update.
Please keep discussions about it to this thread, in order to prevent many different threads from being created.


Link to full post: http://www.empirewar.org/home/m/5312441/article/4756709
 
I hope those maps will be in the gondor pack (since it are both gondor maps). If you separate all those maps it would be just about the money and not about the players.
If you want to increase the worth of the other packs compared to the gondor pack then add some other maps. Rohan Pack could be added for black gates because It was a Gondor+Rohan vs Mordor
 
I hope those maps will be in the gondor pack (since it are both gondor maps). If you separate all those maps it would be just about the money and not about the players.
If you want to increase the worth of the other packs compared to the gondor pack then add some other maps. Rohan Pack could be added for black gates because It was a Gondor+Rohan vs Mordor

The Gondor pack is already the biggest pack. If we added another 2 maps to it it would be 2.5x as big as any other pack. In order to compensate this we would have to add 3 Rohan, 3 dwarven, and 4 more rhovanion maps. This is simply not doable. You paid 7.50€ for a two map pack, and it’s really weird for you to say it’s all about the money for us to NOT double the worth of the pack.

It’s also a matter of balance, since everyone would buy the Gondor Pack if it has such massive value, which means you’d have games of Minas Tirith with 10 citadel guards running around..


[quote user_id="18949559" avatar="https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.enjin.com/187965/site_logo/medium.png" name="lord ish"]when does mordor pack come out?
(mordor pack being edleehondeleelee and lossanarch and black gate)[/quote]

Mordor would more likely include Osgiliath, Minas Morgul and Black Gate, and then Edhellond and Lossarnach would be Gondor maps. But since not all of these are added, we are still discussing this.
 
Small extra update: You now can't brace Tirith flags, Helms Keep flag, and Lossarnach flags, until the battle gets there.

This is done to prevent massive amounts of wood being there at start and it being far too difficult for attackers. It also makes constructors focus more on the current flag.


Yes I know this is a double post, but in this case we're allowed to make exceptions.
 
Small extra update: You now can't brace Tirith flags, Helms Keep flag, and Lossarnach flags, until the battle gets there.

This is done to prevent massive amounts of wood being there at start and it being far too difficult for attackers. It also makes constructors focus more on the current flag.


Yes I know this is a double post, but in this case we're allowed to make exceptions.
i wish there was a Dislike button
 
I wish there was a Dislike button

Care to discuss the topic instead of just saying you dislike the change. If you actually explained why, maybe it could help..

In my opinion, prebracing was just a way for constructors to easily farm points and score. No challenge, just spawn at a far flag and spam wood. If you believe this makes it too difficult for defenders, then that is a valid argument. But then we should find other ways to balance that. (Moving ender chest, more wood for constructors, etc.)
 
Care to discuss the topic instead of just saying you dislike the change? If you actually explained why, maybe it could help..

In my opinion, prebracing was just a way for constructors to easily farm points and score. No challenge, just spawn at a far flag and spam wood. If you believe this makes it too difficult for defenders, then that is a valid argument. But then we should find other ways to balance that. (Moving ender chest, more wood for constructors, etc.)

1. Decrease constructor wood count from 6 to 5 if you plan to readd prebracing

2. Prebracing is something that is realistic rather than no prebracing. If you remember, Helm's deep was preparing their gate during the day, like a couple of hours before the attack. And it's just something that is more realistic as I said.

3. Usually, even as you say "it's annoying for attackers", the attackers still with quite no problem break gates and still win matches.

4. This touches a bit point 3 but: you say that it's not fun to break a gate, well it's the part of the game and something without which the game can't happen CORRECTLY. It's just as in real life: it's not fun going to war, so what? People still do the war. So gates should be considered like a challenge rather than the most annoying part.

5. Recently, a lot of people get past fortifications and break wood from inside. Especially with the latest Axe addition it's easier.

6. For a lot of defenders, it's fun to brace gates. It keeps for us good memories, for example I myself, when we brace a gate DAMN MUCH I usually screenshot that moments for me to remember those good days in future. Now as I said, in probably ~90% of braced gate situations, they always break.

7. Joining point 6, I can agree with it being not fun to prebrace when 5 or less people are on. Something could be done with THAT such as decrease wood amount to 3-4 if there are less than a X amount of players
 
1. Decrease constructor wood count from 6 to 5 if you plan to readd prebracing

1. This is just a suggestion for if we readd it. We don't plan to readd it, and it's not an argument.


2. Prebracing is something that is realistic rather than no prebracing. If you remember, Helm's deep was preparing their gate during the day, like a couple of hours before the attack. And it's just something that is more realistic as I said.

2. It's not. Prebracing is bracing a gate before the men fall back there. (Helms Keep, Edoras Hall, Tirith Second, Third, etc) Bracing main gate on helms isn't prebracing, it's bracing. It's what's supposed to happen. Realistically, if you brace keep before fortress is capped, your entire army is stuck outside and can't enter the keep.


3. Usually, even as you say "it's annoying for attackers", the attackers still with quite no problem break gates and still win matches.

3. Just because they win doesn't mean it's not annoying. Like I said we do need to rebalance some gates by moving chests closer and making bracing easier, but that doesn't mean we have to readd this.


4. This touches a bit point 3 but: you say that it's not fun to break a gate, well it's the part of the game and something without which the game can't happen CORRECTLY. It's just as in real life: it's not fun going to war, so what? People still do the war. So gates should be considered like a challenge rather than the most annoying part.

4. Just because real war was dull, doesn't mean this should be so too. Real war was more focussed on starving people and spreading diseases, but that wouldn't be fun gameplay, would it?
Gates are still a challenge without prebracing, especially when we balance them right.


5. Recently, a lot of people get past fortifications and break wood from inside. Especially with the latest Axe addition it's easier.

5. Which is why they have more wood and we're rebalancing most gates.


6. For a lot of defenders, it's fun to brace gates. It keeps for us good memories, for example I myself, when we brace a gate DAMN MUCH I usually screenshot that moments for me to remember those good days in future. Now as I said, in probably ~90% of braced gate situations, they always break.

6. Well, I can't argue with you finding it fun. But I think it comes at the cost of too much fun for others.
Also, gates will always break. That's the point. No one wants a full game of a closed gate. It's extremely boring for attackers.


7. Joining point 6, I can agree with it being not fun to prebrace when 5 or less people are on. Something could be done with THAT such as decrease wood amount to 3-4 if there are less than a X amount of players

7. This is a valid suggestion, and might possibly be used. But this counts for prebracing just as much as normal bracing, and doesn't mean we need to add prebracing.
 
I hope that even though prebracing is gone, you can still build awesome builds at the tree not by the gate before the enemy gets there
 
I hope that even though prebracing is gone, you can still build awesome builds at the tree not by the gate before the enemy gets there

You can. All it does is block you from building within a 5 block radius of the gate bracing location.
 
This is a good map reminds me of a lore version of cove except with a beach landing which is great, seems like the first flag could have some improvements to help the attackers if they are getting slaughtered, but not sure really. Maybe long boats would be cool similar to Osgiliath instead of just jumping in the water.

I also have a question, do the attacking ships have artillery or crossbows or something else on the ships? Seems like a perfect opportunity to balance with the attackers having that crossbow thing on the hill.
 
yeah it has a ballista

also I just wanted to say the balance on the server now is phenomenal - there is no "OP" class really anymore and its perfect harmony. even on lossanarch the axmen used to be op, but now that corsairs have an axthrower style class that tanks as well as lossanarch can and the captain does decent damage. also, having xbow as a voter class I think was an excellent decision. its a situational class but very useful for pushing all flags except the throne room.
 
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