Is spawncamping legal? If so, why?

[Cluckz]

Soooo another Cluckz thread probably doomed to die. Like the many, many people that die one second after getting out of spawn.
Spawncamping- Let's establish a definition. I'd say it is the lurking of one or more players inside or outside of a team's spawnpoint
There are two types of spawncamping: Offensive and Defensive
Defensive spawncamping is when one or more players take advantage of the spawn's relative protection, staying inside and claiming to have just spawned. This is usually done by archers and ranged classes.
Offensive spawncamping is when one or more players place themselves in a strategic spot outside a spawn, so that they can easily ambush players getting out of spawn while technically not spawnkilling. This is the type that will be discussed in this thread.
As Greyman08 pointed out today, spawncamping occurs more frequently than spawnkilling, and is extremely annoying. It happens on Minas Tirith, for Gondor and for Mordor. It happens on Isengard, for the Uruk-Hai. It happens on Minas Morgul, for Gondor and less often Mordor. It happens on Moria Gold, usually for Dwarves. It happens on Moria, for both teams. It happens on Erebor, though it's good to point out that this is one of the less spawncamping-prone maps. It happens on Laketown for both teams. It happens on ALL maps, but there's three that have unusual levels of "un-spawncamp-bility".These are Erebor, Edoras and Helms Deep.
So if spawnkilling is bannable because it ruins gameplay and is unfair, why isn't spawncamping?
What can we do to make more maps have higher levels of un-spawncamp-bility?
Do archers shooting at a spawn count as spawnkilling, or spawncamping?

these are the questions that we're going to discuss on this thread.

 

[Ajroets]

You defined Offensive Spawncamping, but not Defensive Spawncamping.

You mention that the Dwarves on Moria Gold get spawncamped. There are multiple exits to that spawn, and I've never ever seen all of them camped. If one entrance is camped, just go out a different one, it's not that big of a deal.

For the archer question, it all depends on who they're shooting. If they're shooting other archers that are shooting from their spawn, it's perfectly legal. This happens on Black Gate when Gondor has capped one side of the main gate and not the other. However, if they're shooting people that recently spawned or people that haven't moved after they spawned, then it's spawnkilling.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the main reason it's not against the rules, is because it's far more difficult to police then spawnkilling.

 

[Cluckz]

You defined Offensive Spawncamping, but not Defensive Spawncamping.

You mention that the Dwarves on Moria Gold get spawncamped. There are multiple exits to that spawn, and I've never ever seen all of them camped. If one entrance is camped, just go out a different one, it's not that big of a deal.

For the archer question, it all depends on who they're shooting. If they're shooting other archers that are shooting from their spawn, it's perfectly legal. This happens on Black Gate when Gondor has capped one side of the main gate and not the other. However, if they're shooting people that recently spawned or people that haven't moved after they spawned, then it's spawnkilling.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the main reason it's not against the rules, is because it's far more difficult to police then spawnkilling.

Didn't define Defensive Spawncamping because I didn't want to make the post too long, but I can if it bugs people xP
Dwarves on Moria Gold used to get spawncamped, but you're right, they have more options.
One of the purposes of this thread is to find a way to police spawncampers, so everyone is welcome to post ideas.

 

[MBM111]

This is crazy, honestly, if you don't want to get spawncamped kill them. You can't just ask for everything to be banned. Sorry if I'm being annoying but it's true.

 

[Cluckz]

This is crazy, honestly, if you don't want to get spawncamped kill them. You can't just ask for everything to be banned. Sorry if I'm being annoying but it's true.

Okay, all opinions are valid. For your first argument, "if you don't want to be spawncamped just kill them". I see the sense in this, but saying that is like saying that spawnkilling is correct if the victim is able to successfully defend him/herself against the assaulter. It's not a matter of whether you can defeat the spawncamper, it's about how immensly annoying and rude it is. About decency. For example, today at Osgiliath, Gondor was able to push Mordor back to their spawn. That's okay (although the matter of defenders completely dominating the attackers is a topic for another thread), but what wasn't okay was that many of them were lurking just beside the Mordor spawn, so that as soon as an orc got out, it would get rekt by the hidden soldier. We managed to kill many of these spawncampers, but it was just such blatantly unsportsmanlike! Which is why I think there should be some sort of punishment for spawncamping.

 

[m4rine_semperfi]

Spawn camping is easier to deal with than most people think. On Minas tirith it is very easy to go down the stairs to another siege tower, but people just don't want to. Or you could ram the gate you know. And on maps like osgiliath you can spawn at the flag behind it, if you captured dome and you get pushed back, spawn at the ruined shore instead of the dome. It will give you more space and room between the enemy. I think spawn camping is very rude but it can be avoided half the time.

 

[Cluckz]

Spawn camping is easier to deal with than most people think. On Minas tirith it is very easy to go down the stairs to another siege tower, but people just don't want to. Or you could ram the gate you know. And on maps like osgiliath you can spawn at the flag behind it, if you captured dome and you get pushed back, spawn at the ruined shore instead of the dome. It will give you more space and room between the enemy. I think spawn camping is very rude but it can be avoided half the time.

Yes, that Tirith bit is true, although it kinda defeats the purpose of having siege towers if you can't use em. And on Osg, you're right, but today's problem, at least, was at the very first flag. We literally didn't have anywhere else to spawn than where those rude *insert swear word* were hiding next to.

 

[MBM111]

I was one the Commanders of the team that did that, me and Cass. :d

 

[Cluckz]

I was one the Commanders of the team that did that, me and Cass. :d

I know, tried to keep the conversation neutral and not bring it up ;3

 

[NapoleonV2]

I feel like this thread is going to be more of a "rage thread" to complain about what happened on Osgiliath today.

...But what wasn't okay was that many of them were lurking just beside the Mordor spawn, so that as soon as an orc got out, it would get rekt by the hidden soldier. We managed to kill many of these spawncampers, but it was just such blatantly unsportsmanlike! Which is why I think there should be some sort of punishment for spawncamping.

• 65% of the time, Gondor was on the stairs
  [br]
• Even if they were outside of Mordor's spawn, it was within 5 blocks of visible sight. We waited for them to leave their spawn(which was their choice, even though they knew about the soldiers outside), and then attacked them. Gondor was being shot by Orc Archers. Moreover, some Orcs were leaving their spawn, attacking a few people, and rushing back to the "safety" of their spawn.
  [br]
• In my opinion, these sort of discussions can result in an outstanding amount of hypocrisy.

 

[Cluckz]

I feel like this thread is going to be more of a "rage thread" to complain about what happened on Osgiliath today.

[quote user_id="13527980" avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/CluckmanTheDerp/74.png" name="CluckmanTheDerp"]...But what wasn't okay was that many of them were lurking just beside the Mordor spawn, so that as soon as an orc got out, it would get rekt by the hidden soldier. We managed to kill many of these spawncampers, but it was just such blatantly unsportsmanlike! Which is why I think there should be some sort of punishment for spawncamping.

• 65% of the time, Gondor was on the stairs
  [br]
• Even if they were outside of Mordor's spawn, it was within 5 blocks of visible sight. We waited for them to leave their spawn(which was their choice, even though they knew about the soldiers outside), and then attacked them. Gondor was being shot by Orc Archers. Moreover, some Orcs were leaving their spawn, attacking a few people, and rushing back to the "safety" of their spawn.
  [br]
• In my opinion, these sort of discussions can result in an outstanding amount of hypocrisy.

[/quote]
Okay, yes, I got the idea for the thread from what happened today at Osg, but it's not a "rage thread".
I'll give you that. Yes, only a few people were actually hiding beside the spaen, but still! So uncool...
You just defined spawncamping
I think defensive spawncamping is just as bad as offensive spawncamping, so yeah...
You're right, hypocrisy does tend to flourish in these threads, but they're nevertheless necessary, at least to clear the air on what is and what isn't allowed.
It's interesting that most of the people that have replied to this thread were involved in today's incident, just saying...

 

[Ajroets]

If someone is camping in their own spawn, you're allowed to go kill them. Complications arise when you go to kill that person and end up spawnkilling other people.

 

[KingWeasels]

[quote user_id="10733867" avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/Ajroets/74.png" name="Ajroets"]You defined Offensive Spawncamping, but not Defensive Spawncamping.

You mention that the Dwarves on Moria Gold get spawncamped. There are multiple exits to that spawn, and I've never ever seen all of them camped. If one entrance is camped, just go out a different one, it's not that big of a deal.

For the archer question, it all depends on who they're shooting. If they're shooting other archers that are shooting from their spawn, it's perfectly legal. This happens on Black Gate when Gondor has capped one side of the main gate and not the other. However, if they're shooting people that recently spawned or people that haven't moved after they spawned, then it's spawnkilling.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the main reason it's not against the rules, is because it's far more difficult to police then spawnkilling.

Didn't define Defensive Spawncamping because I didn't want to make the post too long, but I can if it bugs people xP
Dwarves on Moria Gold used to get spawncamped, but you're right, they have more options.
One of the purposes of this thread is to find a way to police spawncampers, so everyone is welcome to post ideas.[/quote]
Thats an excuse. To me, any good post explains all points of view before putting out an opinion.

Definition of "Defensive" spawnkilling

 

[The_Witch_Pikmin]

Yeah what is defensive spawncamping?

 

[haldir100/Ruineth]

Yeah what is defensive spawncamping?

Dunno

 

[sjoerdtim]

I'm sorry, spawnkilling isn't allowed and spawncamping is.
It makes sense in war to camp your enemies, plant men on strategic positions or ready them on ways the enemies come from.
Besides, they're usually not there for long because people respawn so quickly and they got overwhelmed.