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New Helms Discussion

m4rine_semperfi

m4rine_semperfi

Member
V2 Veteran
My ideas/thoughts:


1) First spawn at wall for Uruks is too close, they just spawn right at the ladders. This gets rid of the feel of charging up to the wall that you use to have and that we saw in the movies. That also leads into my next point,

2) The wait to spawn for first 30 seconds at the start of old helms was nice, re-add it because it lets Rohan get positioned on the wall ready to defend and then when the Uruks spawn in there is a nice charge.

3) More moss stone bricks to the build makes it look more accurate to the movies. I noticed the walls were all a bit too grey, here you can see they blend in more with the mountains and have moss in them https://static1.squarespace.com/static/586d078b3e00bec12e87e0d2/t/5899d71957bf4227552bd766/1486477081254/1000w/

4) Battering rams at the gate/keep. This would be like the movies plus it would make better gameplay because the keep is always barricaded a lot, and when players are ramming and clicking for such a long time and it keeps getting more wood added they get discouraged or distracted.

5) Make it rain for first few minutes of game like in the movies.

6) Elf archer voter class. Can only spawn at wall & sidekeep. They have full leather blue armor and a gold helmet. They have a gold sword which should be made to do more than wood but less than iron (+5 dmg in 1.8 but idk what it is in 1.9+). They would have more arrows, but then to balance the arrows/sword their bow was less power. It has a focus on melee because they are defending a wall with a lot of ladders and once the Uruks get up the bows are harder to use. They have more arrows because it is an incentive to use this class at the wall, but then once the wall/sidekeep is lost the class is disabled.

7) The cave flag takes too long. Move the flag somewhere in the middle, this way the uruks can charge to it and attack like normal and the men have to also charge to defend it, rather than spawning them almost on top of the flag. It should be hard to defend, it's a cave, and in the movies it had no strategic advantage, the keep/fortress was meant to be the strongest part to defend.


What are your thoughts?
 
I'd love to see rain, but it causes immense lag for a great majority of players :(
 
First, this is what I noted down during the battle, and I notice there's some overlap:

a) Plains spawn too close
b) Perhaps add a time before orcs can spawn
c) Spectator doesn't work
d) Wall isn't added, and can be blown by using any iron bar.
e) Horseman is broken - horses do not spawn in stables
f) Glittering caves Rohan spawn should be moved.

Now to your points.

3) We can look into retexturing the wall, I'll talk to the Builders.
4) I'd add rams this instant, but I still need to work out how to add them/how they work, which I'll need to talk to [user avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/sjoerdtim/74.png" name="sjoerdtim"]960266[/user] about.
5) As Fox mentioned, I'm cautious of adding rain for lag reasons, however we could look into adding an optional setting.
6) I wholeheartedly approve of more non-donor archer classes, but they'll require careful thought. I'll look into it.
7) In my view the final defence of the cave flag was due to the aptitude of the defending team. On previous tests it's been taken fairly quickly with a stronger attacking team. However, only more tests will tell what needs changing. I will, however, move the Glittering caves Rohan spawn back to behind the flag a way, rather than having it between the attacker's spawn and the flag.
 
There needs to be more cover in the maps and paths made for melee players mostly (such as an underneath part on the outer inner wall) as archer is too powerful in this map. It's too powerful at the outer inner wall, sidekeep and glittering caves. Outside of these flags the class is fine (some flags too weak).

m4rine_semperfi said:
My ideas/thoughts:

6) Elf archer voter class. Can only spawn at wall & sidekeep. They have full leather blue armor and a gold helmet. They have a gold sword which should be made to do more than wood but less than iron (+5 dmg in 1.8 but idk what it is in 1.9+). They would have more arrows, but then to balance the arrows/sword their bow was less power. It has a focus on melee because they are defending a wall with a lot of ladders and once the Uruks get up the bows are harder to use. They have more arrows because it is an incentive to use this class at the wall, but then once the wall/sidekeep is lost the class is disabled.
Click to expand...

This class is basically a nerfed version of ranger. The problem with adding power 0 classes is that they need to compete with ranger. If they don't then they are just a nerfed version of the class. This is why moria orc got buffed because it was this ranged melee hybrid which was just worse than ranger (also a melee ranged hybrid).

The only way I could see it being useful is giving it power 0, speed and gold sword. Then adding a barrage ability which would fire an arrow every 0.5s for 3 arrows with a 20 second cooldown. Of course I'm not too sure adding this on helms would be a good idea considering archers are already too strong on the map so it would probably be a good idea fixing that first before adding another ranged class.

I would also like to see maybe an attacking xbow class (using the new xbow mechanics of course).
 
Yeah for archer I think the worst spot is the chokepoint tunnel between main gate/side keep. It's long and pointing downwards so those defending the sidekeep have an unlimited easy defensive position because there is no way else to get there unless you go all the way around. I think it's a flaw with the build, not sure what can be done unless the tunnel is made curved or just removed, as it wasn't in the real helms deep. This would funnel everyone attacking sidekeep through the main entrance.

For the elf class I just think it would be cool for the visuals mainly, it could be the same as ithilien ranger maybe but with different armor/gold texture sword.
 
I have made a lot of progress on this, but I will need another test or two before release. The wall is coded and generally works, and [user avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/LimeeFox/74.png" name="LimeeFox"]10104085[/user] has moved the Glittering Caves Rohan spawn.
 
A bug report, that Tobberz asked to put here:

The Jeep's gate can be opened independently from the Fortress flag status, as opposed to before, when it was closeable only if the fortress flag was captured
 
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