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Seperate troll life count.

thedorado

thedorado

New member
V1 Lord
In the Lord of the Rings movies and books the trolls were valuable and not numerous. There would be only a couple dozen of trolls in a large army. There should be a seperate count for trolls because trolls did not have infinite lives or as many as the or cs. It would be just like nazgul how it is a different life count then the regular orcs. I think this would improve the gameplay on maps where trolls seem to dominant the game.
Edit: After some thinking I think that on Minas Tirith this shouldn't be taken into affect because that map is level to level combat which the whole entire orc team relies of trolls to bash their way through, and that army was huge so it would make sense that there would be more trolls.
On the maps Helms Deep and Moria orcs would be able to bash the gate but only do half or a quarter of the damage once the trolls run out of lives. This would allow the orcs to still break gates but without trolls. And you also could use ladders to go past the gate anyways.
-Dorado
 
http://www.empirewar.org/forums/page/3/m/5312442/viewthread/24242275-trolls-change

A quick search brought up this thread as the most recent one to suggest limiting troll.
 
I like the idea of it. Doesn't limit players to playing troll, but makes them less of a nuisance.
 
While, yes, I am in favor of this idea, what if the troll lives run out before they can break a gate to a major point?

The other team will not be able to advance any further, hence ceasing progress and making capping the other flags very difficult or impossible..
 
[user avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/MrDrewSky/74.png" name="MrDrewSky"]7933048[/user] possibly once the trolls died regular orcs could bash too, because orcs were strong enough in groups to break gates like in Helms Deep. It is not that difficult to capture flags without bashing the gate even on maps like Minas Tirith because you always have the option to ladder up to the next level.
 
thedorado said:
[user avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/MrDrewSky/74.png" name="MrDrewSky"]7933048[/user] possibly once the trolls died regular orcs could bash too, because orcs were strong enough in groups to break gates like in Helms Deep. It is not that difficult to capture flags without bashing the gate even on maps like Minas Tirith because you always have the option to ladder up to the next level.
Click to expand...
*People laddering up tall walls* Archers: *Heavy breathing*
 
For Minas Tirith, if the teams are relatively balanced, it's very very hard to cap without the gate bashed. For Helms Deep, the first flag can be capped without the gate being bashed, but the keep requires the gate to be bashed. I'm not familiar with Balin's Tomb since I have not played it since Moria Great Halls was revamped, so I don't know if the gate needs to be bashed or if the goblins have enough pushing power without trolls. On Minas Morgul and Moria Gold they're there for their strength only, they don't supply any essential service. On Erebor, since there's a ram at the main gate, they're not needed to bash, but I'm not sure about the other gates.

Regarding the idea to allow regular orcs to bash after all the trolls have died, since you can't add rams to all the gates, the gates would fall far far faster. Since the orcs would be bashing the same way trolls would, it would go from 5 trolls bashing to 10+ orcs bashing and gates would fall twice as fast or faster. This can be fixed somewhat by increasing the gate health, and making it so that troll bashing removes more health than orc bashing. This is all assuming Tim would bother coding something that allows orcs to bash when there are no more trolls.
 
[user avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/MrDrewSky/74.png" name="MrDrewSky"]7933048[/user]
Players still manage to do this with trolls and constant archer fire directed at them. If you know how to ladder up properly it is not too hard and if it is done once, usually it will work.

[user avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/Ajroets/74.png" name="Ajroets"]10733867[/user]
After some thinking I do believe there should not be a limit on only Minas Tirith. Mordor has a huge army during that Siege (possibly the largest amount of orcs ever assembled in that age) and it would make sense that they would bring much more trolls then usual.
On the other hand, maps like Minas Morgul, Moria 2, and Moria trolls are used for brute strength and should be a limit.
On all the other maps that fall between should allow orcs to bash or ram. I've seen other capture the flag servers do it and it works pretty well.
 
thedorado said:
Players still manage to do this with trolls and constant archer fire directed at them. If you know how to ladder up properly it is not too hard and if it is done once, usually it will work.
Click to expand...
Hah, no. Even if this would be true, because there is no way to somehow magically avoid arrows and they'd be certainly looking in your direction, the laddering is just too slow. And the secret path is too slow as well. So the gates are needed as a way to make a serious attempt at the keep flag.
 
This is not true. Laddering without using the gate works capping the flag so long as you have a back line Mordor archer killing the rest of the archers shooting the laddering Mordor. I would like to see this implemented but also have orc soldiers able to break down gates like on Edoras.
 
It's true that it takes longer to ladder up and get uup without any resistance and then go down the corridor than going through the gates, that are just straight into the keep. It's like on the wall. Mordor can't usually safely go that way without a berserker to make a hole. Also, Gondor can move away from the arrows because there are pillars to hide behind. If they get the balcony back, you're screwed.
 
[user avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/Killmatronix/74.png" name="Killmatronix"]4140781[/user]
Most of the times, Gondor/Rohan/Dwarves are heavily outnumbered (2:1 or 3:1 ratio) and only a portion of their soldiers are archers (except on Moria which its only gate could be bashed by orcs) so it isn't that hard to ladder up, at least for me. I never said eliminate bashing in general (which you didn't even read) just use an alternate system, orcs bashing for half the damage or a ram is possible. The gates are needed to be broken in order to reach the flag, but that statement does not affect my point because I have listed multiple alternatives to bashing as a troll once all the trolls have died.
 
I've read everything. But the gate n the square is usualy even hard to destroy for trolls. It's practically impossible if they all go constructor. And now you want to add that soldiers can bash for half the damage. Ridiculous. Nothing will ever move. And guess what? That ration was MEANT to be from the start. Because attackers could never do jack with an equal ratio. So that means nothing.
 
Killmatronix said:
I've read everything. But the gate n the square is usualy even hard to destroy for trolls. It's practically impossible if they all go constructor. And now you want to add that soldiers can bash for half the damage. Ridiculous. Nothing will ever move. And guess what? That ration was MEANT to be from the start. Because attackers could never do jack with an equal ratio. So that means nothing.
Click to expand...
fyi Kill, when i play helms deep there is 4 trolls and the rest are orc melee or mage. it would be about the same because there is way more orcs then trolls. your right, attackers can't do much if the orcs and trolls had the same amount of lives, but they don't so that point is irrelevant. just give in, troll can't always be op.
 
Lol. You misread the entire point. I said that the orcs won't be able break the gates on their own, ever. And if you see normal orcs on Helm's, then we're playing a different game, because that is not true at all.
 
Yes this has been said before.
No, it wont be implemented.

All this commotion about Troll is pointless. Nothing will change in the foreseeable future, so stop going on about it.
Perhaps complaining about Troll should be moved to Forum Games?
 
[user avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/Tobberz/74.png" name="Tobberz"]9802996[/user]
You are not a staff member, correct? So you do not know what the decision will be, so don't post. Don't post comments like this on suggestion threads because it doesn't help.
 
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