[quote user_id="6887615" avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/Prometheus39/74.png" name="Prometheus39"][quote user_id="6486074" avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/akam7912/74.png" name="akam7912"][quote user_id="6887615" avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/Prometheus39/74.png" name="Prometheus39"][quote user_id="1406704" avatar="https://cravatar.eu/helmavatar/DruMaster24/74.png" name="DruMaster24"]If you look at history, America has never actually lost a war. :thumb: (We pulled out of Vietnam, we were not defeated, and it was never technically a war. The War of 1812 was just kind of messed up and confusing, but we did send the Brits packing a second time, so I consider it a victory as well.)
Just think of all those wars the various nations of Europe has lost. Oh my...
Well, that's your opinion and I can understand why you may think so. However, if you don't want to consider it a lose (concerning 1812), it was a colossal failure by the Americans. Not only did you attack Canada, or what was to become Canada, but you attacked during a time when the British were already engaged. That's a fact many Americans seem to forget. The Americans in charge of military affairs were at least smart enough to realize that they could only win by taking the offensive against a tiny, tiny fraction of the British Army and Navy.
So, okay. You'd imagine the high and mighty Americans would sweep across the frontier and take the territories of Britain. Well... not really. Not only did you uselessly lose men, but you lost a war which was honestly against British officers who were there for probably failing somewhere else, and you also lost to a bunch of militia men who were under equipped in every way. Additionally, you also lost to the Natives, who were just as important in the defense of Canada at the time. Ultimately, The Americans gained no land, and were seriously demoralized by the outcome of the war. You'd actually lost an engagement (the U.S. started, by the way) against a bunch of hunters, loyalists, aboriginals, and lonely British officers.
And the kicker. When the actual British Army showed up, they plowed through your defense and walked right up to the White House and burnt it down. So, you may not call it a lose, and I won't try and change your mind since it's an opinion and I have my own. Yet, because of the circumstances of the war, it was a major failure on the part of your military; a lose.[/quote]
What about the battle of New Orleans? We destroyed them when we were outnumbered 4700 to 11000. Stupid Canadian thinks he has a say in this matter. I would like to see Britain attack us now. We saved their asses in world war 2.[/quote]
That was a great victory for you guys, I can't argue that. Reading through the synopsis of the battle, the British were overly confident and had actually forgot most of their supplies for an offensive. Why they forgot? I don't really know; possibly being arrogant about the numerous victories that had before it. Whatever the case, I don't know. But do remember, the Americans had the defensive positions, had 16 artillery guns, and a few select ships. So, yes. You didn't kick the British behind there. Yet, how does that account for the entire rest of the war? It must feel terrible having you butts spanked by the British. Congrats on New Orleans though, it was a decisive victory that I think any country could admire.
Now, subsequently I'd like to know why you think I'm stupid? You're the one that said the American's saved the British in WW2. That's the biggest piece of propaganda I've seen so far. You realize that America didn't actually join the war until 1941, right? And ever detail indicates they had no intention of helping beyond selling stuff to the Allies until Pearl Harbour. I have no problem with American's claiming the Pacific as "their" victory, because it ultimately was. America's industry out produced all others and expanded their naval power incredibly. Thus, the Pacific can be attributed mostly to the Americans. However, Europe is another matter entirely. Every Commonwealth country supported Britain and it's allies beyond anything the Americans or other countries that entered later did. If I had to say, victory in Europe should be awarded to Russia.
Not done yet. North Africa, a commonly forgotten section of the war but just as valuable. Are you aware that:
"The United States did not have a smooth entry into the war against Nazi Germany. Early in 1943, the U.S. Army suffered a near-disastrous defeat at the Battle of the Kasserine Pass in February. The senior Allied leadership was primarily to blame for the loss as internal bickering between American General Lloyd Fredendall and the British led to mistrust and little communication, causing inadequate troop placements. The defeat could be considered a major turning point, however, because General Eisenhower replaced Fredendall with General Patton.
Slowly the Allies stopped the German advance in Tunisia and by March were pushing back. In mid April, under British General Bernard Montgomery, the Allies smashed through the Mareth Line and broke the Axis defense in North Africa. On 13 May 1943, Axis troops in North Africa surrendered, leaving behind 275,000 men. Allied efforts turned towards Sicily and Italy."
- Wikipedia
Now, what would have happened had Montgomery not come to help? I can't say. Most likely, the American's still would have won North Africa. But hell, it was quite a bit easier having the British help you overcome heavy German resistance. If they hadn't helped, how many unfortunately young American men would have perished? Think about it.
I will say though that American bombers were a strategic strength for the Allies across the Mediterranean. With that said, it wasn't their victory alone. British and allied forces, combined with American forces, eventually took Sicily and then went on to capture Italy. Furthermore, it should be known that nearly all operations (Overlord, Queen, Market-Garden, Cobra) undertook in WW2 post American involvement were not composed of entirely American forces, but were combined efforts of many nations. Where Americans get the idea that they saved the British and Allies from destruction is silly. That's not true. The American involvement certainly sped up the victory, especially in the Pacific, but it seems more likely that had the Americans stayed out of Europe (which they originally intended to if I may add) the victory still would have come eventually. The Axis was already showing signs of political and military stress, and the Russians were already 'getting back up from their stumble.'
Please Akam. Don't ever post that the American's saved the British in World War Two. I actually think that is offensive to every British soldier who died during the first two to three years of the war.[/quote]
um... I'm not even gonna start
trying to read this...[/quote]
um no the president at that time wanted to join the war to help Britain he just couldn't find an excuse. don't you know? within the first week of pearl harbor he called up one of his good high ranked political friends in Britain (yes I forgot his name and don't reply and say im stupid because you UKers know who he is) and said we are on the same page now. the USA was preparing for war for a while before pearl harbor and this statement of your Prometheus just proofs England needed USA more then USA needed England
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